Comments on: the self-serving church http://iamhealed.net/2007/10/26/the-self-serving-church/ ...and by His stripes we are healed. (Is. 53:5) Sat, 22 Nov 2008 06:46:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Veronica http://iamhealed.net/2007/10/26/the-self-serving-church/#comment-206 Veronica Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:55:02 +0000 http://iamhealed.net/2007/10/26/the-self-serving-church/#comment-206 Kathi, Yes, it sure has been a long time since we have last spoken; it’s been an eventful year or so, to say the least. If you would ever like to catch up my phone/email/IM info hasn’t changed. I have been better (this summer culminated with a very awful falling out with my Dad, and I’m still coming to terms with the changes this brings in my life), but things could also be a great deal worse. I hope you’re doing well. Anyway, of course worship in community impacts the world! Or, at least, it has that potential if we let it. In my own life, I know that whenever I allow a decline in my church attendance, my prayer long won’t be long in following… and once that happens, things tend to start falling apart. Conversely, when I am practicing my faith as I ought to, the effects in my life can be instantaneous. Even after a single Mass, or Reconciliation, or hour spend in Adoration… that flood of grace is unmistakable, and it plays out in all sorts of little ways. For the rest of the day, it’s so much easier to pick up my cross and live my faith. When I miss Mass, and it only gets worse the longer bad behaviour continues, I can be an absolutely miserable person. If that’s not a transformation in my life, I’m not sure what is. I know, you mean something deeper than that, but I’m not sure we can really make a distinction. Holiness takes, well… practice, and most of us have a long way to go before we become the sort of people Catholics call Saints. If that’s ever going to happen, we need to start making those radical decisions to love right here and right now. We’re all called to transform the world, but, first, we need to get into the habit of loving in little ways. What I mean is… you’re right, of course, that it’s very easy to get caught up in the consolations(as hidden as they might be) in worship forgetting that a strong faith is a living faith, and, when our faith isn’t carried out in good works, then our faith is anything but living. That’s not the whole story though, as I’m sure you know: it’s through worship and prayer that we are able to respond to the grace necessary to do those good works… It’s only through grace that we are able to love our neighbour as we love ourselves. It’s also a choice. Perhaps this desire you have is God’s way of calling you to go out and change the world. I’m reminded of my favourite JPII quote: "Do not be afraid. Do not be satisfied with mediocrity. Put out into the deep and let down your nets for a catch." Anyway, this is as dreadfully long as it is incoherent, and I’m exhausted. Talk to you soon! <blockquote><em> (this comment added back in by Kathi... the blog deleted it during a recent server move. Fortunately comments are emailed and by both the mess-up and wonder of technology, it's here :) Other than me adding this dibbit at the end, it's wholly unedited)</em></blockquote> Kathi,
Yes, it sure has been a long time since we have last spoken; it’s been an eventful year or so, to say the least. If you would ever like to catch up my phone/email/IM info hasn’t changed. I have been better (this summer culminated with a very awful falling out with my Dad, and I’m still coming to terms with the changes this brings in my life), but things could also be a great deal worse. I hope you’re doing well.

Anyway, of course worship in community impacts the world! Or, at least, it has that potential if we let it.
In my own life, I know that whenever I allow a decline in my church attendance, my prayer long won’t be long in following… and once that happens, things tend to start falling apart. Conversely, when I am practicing my faith as I ought to, the effects in my life can be instantaneous.

Even after a single Mass, or Reconciliation, or hour spend in Adoration… that flood of grace is unmistakable, and it plays out in all sorts of little ways. For the rest of the day, it’s so much easier to pick up my cross and live my faith. When I miss Mass, and it only gets worse the longer bad behaviour continues, I can be an absolutely miserable person.

If that’s not a transformation in my life, I’m not sure what is. I know, you mean something deeper than that, but I’m not sure we can really make a distinction. Holiness takes, well… practice, and most of us have a long way to go before we become the sort of people Catholics call Saints. If that’s ever going to happen, we need to start making those radical decisions to love right here and right now. We’re all called to transform the world, but, first, we need to get into the habit of loving in little ways.

What I mean is… you’re right, of course, that it’s very easy to get caught up in the consolations(as hidden as they might be) in worship forgetting that a strong faith is a living faith, and, when our faith isn’t carried out in good works, then our faith is anything but living. That’s not the whole story though, as I’m sure you know: it’s through worship and prayer that we are able to respond to the grace necessary to do those good works… It’s only through grace that we are able to love our neighbour as we love ourselves.

It’s also a choice. Perhaps this desire you have is God’s way of calling you to go out and change the world.

I’m reminded of my favourite JPII quote:
“Do not be afraid. Do not be satisfied with mediocrity. Put out into the deep and let down your nets for a catch.”

Anyway, this is as dreadfully long as it is incoherent, and I’m exhausted.

Talk to you soon!


(this comment added back in by Kathi… the blog deleted it during a recent server move. Fortunately comments are emailed and by both the mess-up and wonder of technology, it’s here :) Other than me adding this dibbit at the end, it’s wholly unedited)

]]> By: kathi http://iamhealed.net/2007/10/26/the-self-serving-church/#comment-205 kathi Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:34:09 +0000 http://iamhealed.net/2007/10/26/the-self-serving-church/#comment-205 So, musing some more on the whole issue of self-serving churches, self-serving Christians... Read my post on <a href="http://iamhealed.net/2007/10/27/the-holy-spirit-and-fire/">The Holy Spirit and Fire</a> for context... So much of what I see - and I count myself in this so don't think I'm condemning - is people who go to church (even several times a week) and joyously worship the Lord. Indeed He is worthy. We get filled up with the Holy Ghost, prophesy to one another, lay hands on one another and pray and He moves powerfully... (and in other church traditions there are many ways to interact with the Lord) and I'm left wondering... this impacts the world how? This changes what? Are we TRULY being transformed, if when we leave that atmosphere, we do not do the same things that we do when we're there? I'm not talking about living sanctified, holy lives and the Sunday Christian thing - warming a pew Sunday morning and getting drunk at the race Sunday afternoon and cursing at your boss all week long... I'm talking about something deeper than that. Angst. Isn't it great? Sighs... 5:30, nothing ready for supper and us not ready for church. Guess I'll have to do more musing later. So, musing some more on the whole issue of self-serving churches, self-serving Christians… Read my post on The Holy Spirit and Fire for context… So much of what I see - and I count myself in this so don’t think I’m condemning - is people who go to church (even several times a week) and joyously worship the Lord. Indeed He is worthy. We get filled up with the Holy Ghost, prophesy to one another, lay hands on one another and pray and He moves powerfully… (and in other church traditions there are many ways to interact with the Lord)

and I’m left wondering… this impacts the world how? This changes what? Are we TRULY being transformed, if when we leave that atmosphere, we do not do the same things that we do when we’re there?

I’m not talking about living sanctified, holy lives and the Sunday Christian thing - warming a pew Sunday morning and getting drunk at the race Sunday afternoon and cursing at your boss all week long… I’m talking about something deeper than that.

Angst. Isn’t it great?

Sighs… 5:30, nothing ready for supper and us not ready for church. Guess I’ll have to do more musing later.

]]> By: kathi http://iamhealed.net/2007/10/26/the-self-serving-church/#comment-204 kathi Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:08:34 +0000 http://iamhealed.net/2007/10/26/the-self-serving-church/#comment-204 Don't get me wrong. Worship is *important*. You can do it at home...but still, corporate worship (that is, in a church setting with other believers) and teaching is vital - the Bible says so. Can't do without it. Where I think the church misses the boat (collectively) is in thinking that "this is all there is." They want their nice sterile environment, where they can sing and dance and prophesy and amen and go home. Yes, we worship the Lord but we do so in a self-serving way. I guess I'm back on Mark 16:15-20 (again) <em>And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." 19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.</em> Witness to a meth addict? Pray for healing in Walmart? Prophesy to your co-worker? It's not going to happen in your seat at church. I guess that's where I'm headed with this, Veronica. The church's faith needs feets. BTW, hope you're well...haven't heard from you in forever! :) Don’t get me wrong. Worship is *important*. You can do it at home…but still, corporate worship (that is, in a church setting with other believers) and teaching is vital - the Bible says so. Can’t do without it.

Where I think the church misses the boat (collectively) is in thinking that “this is all there is.” They want their nice sterile environment, where they can sing and dance and prophesy and amen and go home. Yes, we worship the Lord but we do so in a self-serving way.

I guess I’m back on Mark 16:15-20 (again) And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.

Witness to a meth addict? Pray for healing in Walmart? Prophesy to your co-worker? It’s not going to happen in your seat at church.

I guess that’s where I’m headed with this, Veronica. The church’s faith needs feets.

BTW, hope you’re well…haven’t heard from you in forever! :)

]]> By: Veronica http://iamhealed.net/2007/10/26/the-self-serving-church/#comment-203 Veronica Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:51:37 +0000 http://iamhealed.net/2007/10/26/the-self-serving-church/#comment-203 I don't know that I would say that most churches are self-serving. Seems to me that, whenever I show up at Mass, it's with the sole purpose of worship. Were I just out for consolation or good times... eh, I could think of better ways. I don’t know that I would say that most churches are self-serving. Seems to me that, whenever I show up at Mass, it’s with the sole purpose of worship.

Were I just out for consolation or good times… eh, I could think of better ways.

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