An assessment of the Lakeland Revival
JunglesWife posted a link to a blog I’ve never seen before, but will undoubtedly start reading - “The Not So Daily Timmy”, by Tim Brownlee.
Tim posted an assessment of the Lakeland revival which makes several excellent points - most notably this:
The fact is for many of these cult watcher groups, their prophets are all dead. They can’t trust anybody alive to bear the oracle of God besides themselves.
and also this:
Because if all you are concerned is with deception then it will become your God.
July 6th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
But I can say that the thing is the Prophets are alive and well and they are truly hearing from God
July 6th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
07/06/08 Greetings to All Pentecostals &
Charismatics!, The above link is especially for you. The above video is
from a Non-Pentecostal Perspective. This
is how a real revival should be. Also,
here is a rhetorical question for you to
ponder, “why are you trying to feel God?,
when the Angels of God do not even do that at all!” They say, “holy,holy,holy”
Lord,God,Almighty. They don’t have their
hands held upwards toward him!
July 6th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
07/06/08 Oops! here is that weblink again,www.fireonthealtar.com/video/Asbury.wmv Note: you will most likely have to
paste & copy it in order to see it. thank
you for your time and patience.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
07/06/08 Hello, It seems to me that lil
Timmy is having a temper tantrum. It makes me wonder if he is truly rightly-dividing the Word? Non-P/C’s would realize that the Body of Christ would not
need Prophets & Prophetesses cos they got
The Word of God Complete!
July 7th, 2008 at 6:54 am
Um, John, this’ll likely make you mad but I’ll say it anyway… I believe the Bible, and therefore I’m Pentecostal.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:31 am
I wonder Kathi, why it is becoming more and more that people are checking things out closer and closer.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:12 am
I dunno, Rev… unbelief, mayhap?
July 7th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Or Kathi people are deserning more and more
July 7th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Perhaps that’s why well over a quarter million people have been to Lakeland and who knows how many gazillion more watch on TV and Internet… lots of discerning people are “getting some”… and drawing ever closer to Jesus as a result.
I’ve seen a lot of things in my life, Rev… and I do mean a lot… but I’ve never seen the devil let Jesus get all the glory.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Well not saying to be negative, but we must remember that not all the people that go to revival have a deserning spirit. We must remember even if the person is not of God, God can still get the Glory out it. Remember if he can use a Donkey he can use anything. Kathi the big problem is “The Angel” that is bothersome as we are not to worship Angels and it is put in the singular by todd not the plural
July 8th, 2008 at 8:15 am
We must remember that not all the people who stay home have a discerning spirit.
Given God created the donkey and I’m sure animals know on some level who their Creator is, I don’t think that’s a very good argument. Show me where God’s used a cultist to draw people to Jesus, heal the sick, and raise the dead. Then we’ll talk about it.
The big problem - the inconvenient truth - is that you and the rest of the revival police are worshiping this “angel” - not TB and not anyone else connected to Lakeland. Your focus is on the angel and not what Jesus is doing - to your shame.
BTW, if I saw you, Rev, I would describe you in the singular. If I saw you and six other people, I could describe either the group (plural), or I could still describe you in the singular if I was referring only to you.
I don’t have time right now, but I do believe I’ll write a new post on this later…
July 8th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Well at least one thing I do know, we will never agree on this, but do enjoy your views
July 8th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Kathi and one thing more, I am singular as I am one person. Angels are more than one, The Angel would not be more than one. lol
July 8th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Oh just reread your post, no problem was Todd was by stating that God told him to preach “The Angel” I worship Jesus in spirit and in truth, no angels or man here. You seem like an intelligent person, and you should spend time listening to all of his video’s and comments. Why would God want us to hear about an angel and not about his son Jesus. an angel will not save you, but Jesus will.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Rev, I am an intelligent person (that’s no joke, I’m MENSA-qualified). I’ve listened to videos that I know to be authentic (read: not spliced together or edited), read lots of his online material and his book, heard him speak in person three times and have watched the revival live (with TB and others preaching) perhaps 80-85 of it’s 90+ nights.
I’ve never heard TB (or anyone else connected to this revival) preach that an angel will save you, or that angels should be worshiped.
Believe me - Jesus gets the glory.
Yet there’s this… If God didn’t want us to hear about angels, why are they mentioned so often in the Bible (and often not in the context of Jesus)?
July 8th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Rev, you might want to read Acts 12 (the whole chapter). It’s rather instructive, wouldn’t you agree?
July 8th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
BTW, Rev, one more thought… you said
>>Well at least one thing I do know, we will never agree on this<<
I agree, it’s not likely - at least not until we each stand before God and are judged for it all…
July 8th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Show me where God’s used a cultist to draw people to Jesus, heal the sick, and raise the dead. Then we’ll talk about it.
Kathi, as you’ve not been able to answer my past few emails (I do know you’ve been busy), yet I feel the need after reading this statement to bring up at least one of the questions I brought to you. Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn, were we not once in agreement that God can and does use anyone, even a cultist?
July 8th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Donna good point there/ Kathi will read then answer on Acts 12
July 8th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Kathi I have never doubted the existance of angels. I said I couldn’t believe that God would tell someone to not preach Jesus as people knew who Jesus was but to preach about The Angel so they would understand the supernatural. He used singular not plural.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Don’t think for a minute that I’m in agreement with all that you’ve said, Rev.
July 8th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Oh would never think that. We all have and made our opinions and we will live with them. I just like to dig deep into things and find the truth for me and I find I am not alone.
July 9th, 2008 at 6:13 am
Don’t dig too deep Rev, you may not find your way out.
July 9th, 2008 at 6:16 am
Oh Donna, I always find my way out as go to the father in prayer before going in
July 9th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Donna, I may post about that later (I’m supposed to be working at the moment, but that’s not working out so well)
Here’s the short of it, though. I’ve spent a lot of time in thought and in prayer, and I’ve had to admit - I’ve not seen either of them in person. All I’ve seen, really, are video clips on the internet, and some things people have written about them. Given that videos are being spliced together to prove the evils of Todd Bentley, it wouldn’t surprise me if the heresy hunters had done the same with KC and BH.
So I’ve done some digging. Not a lot, yet. But some. I’ve watched Copeland on the television. Does his focus seem to be on the wrong thing (money)… yes. Does that make him a cultist? I don’t think so. Can God use him anyways? Yes. I’ve not investigated Benny Hinn much. I am, however, going to one of his conferences this fall. Why? To see, for myself. Is he a cultist? By strict definition, no. The same thing I’ve asked people to do regarding Lakeland and TB.
I’ve also started looking into some of the Word of Faith stuff. I’ve read a lot about it - from people who didn’t like it and seemed to have good reasons not to. I’ve heard a lot about it, by people who hurt by it. This convinced me that overall, it’s a bad thing. I’m sure I’ll remain convinced about certain elements of it, and I’m pretty sure I’ll never be called WoF (just a follower of Christ, thank you). These days, I’m talking to people within WoF churches about what they believe, and why. Nearly all of them denounce the more extreme teachings and the $$$$ stuff. That surprised me. They say that some of the teachings that seem extreme or unbiblical really aren’t what they seem (I’ve not had time to investigate yet). That said, what I’m seeing in these folks that I’ve come to know is a wholehearted seeking of God and a desire to live by His word. They’re not at all like the way I envisioned WoF folks to be, and so perhaps I’m guilty of having formed a stereotype based on the negatives.
Well, that got longer than I intended… might as well continue for a bit.
When I said, can God work through a cultist, I meant that we’re not seeing a cult leader (Warren Jeffs, the LDS, the JW’s, etc.) seeing people by the thousands saved, healed, delivered, set afire for the Most High. I won’t say that individuals aren’t occasionally healed in those places. I don’t know that it’s the work of the devil, or maybe God’s mercy and working out His plan.
There’s a difference between a cultist and an imperfect preacher of God’s word (which we all are, and that was my point of the Sin post). Can God work through an imperfect minister? Yes. He does it all the time. Can God even work through a preacher or minister who is undevoted to Him? Who lives in sin? Who has a skewed view of Him? Yes, I believe He can.
More later, perhaps… work is calling me (I’m designing a series of websites - commercial stuff/business venture. I’ll post on that eventually)
July 9th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Now Kathi, I know a Good ole Baptist preacher that lead alot of people to the Lord and during a revival at his chuch which was in the thousands of people who went there, when the altar call was given he was the first one to hit the altar and get born again. His daddy was a preacher, his granddaddy and his great grand daddy. So he was and never hit him until then, he needed his own salvation. I have watch KC and BH and they have only one problem that most televangelist have and that is asking for money, but then again, to stay on TV like they do, they need money. I myself would rather see the local churches get more involved and then people wouldn’t have to watch them and send money to them. There is a local pastor here that one of his members husband is not physically able to go to church. When he was in the hospital, that pastor wouldn’t visit as he said not his member. Yes I went and visited him and when he goes to be with the Lord I will do the going home service. I visit my people in their homes as well as them coming to the building we hold services in. The local church should be doing what it can to reach people
July 9th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
>>The local church should be doing what it can to reach people< <
Rev! We finally agree on something. Glory to God!
I don’t think that if the local church steps up to the plate as it should, that we’ll suddenly lose the need for televangelists, people with healing ministries, etc. There are, and will always be, people who will not initially be reached by the local churches but will instead find God through media and/or the internet.
Your horror story of the pastor who will not visit a man not a member of his church is disgusting - but it mirrors several of the local churches here, where people are kicked out for not wearing the right clothes, putting the correct amount of $ in the plate, or lacking transportation to church. I pray that these pastors will gain a clue before it’s too late.
It IS time for the local church to step up and do what it’s supposed to be doing! That’s one reason I’m so grateful for the Lakeland revival, Rev… God is prompting an ever-growing number of people to truly seek Him and seek what He longs to give them.
July 9th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Kathi, were you not the one who told me that Kenneth Copeland preached Jesus needed to be born again? What catagory does this fall under??
And to me the main issue with WOF is not so much the desire for money, but the name-it-and-claim-it beliefs that are preached from the pulpit. Isn’t this alone enough to keep one away?? I once thought so.
Oh, and we never labeled ourselves WOF, but that’s what we were.
July 9th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Kathi,
I tell my people just to be descent looking as this is what the Lord would want. If its jeans so be it. I don’t wear a suit all the time and very seldom wear a tie. I like to be comfortable when I am preaching. We the local church should be reaching people and we are not. I would say if the local churches would do what they are suppose to, then people wouldn’t have to travel anyplace to get the word of the Lord. And my people are faithful and are there when the doors are open. Are we rich, no thats why I work a full time job and minister full time. The day will come when I don’t have to. I can actually retire in 2 1/2 years. I preach because I love to, not for the money that would come from it. Donna, I haven’t really gotten into Kenneth Copeland. Not that I have anything against him, but just not one I liked to watch. Many of them have said some of the wall things. I use to like Rod Parsley, but all he asks is for money. I went to camp meeting there in 1999 and he said people shouldn’t use credit cards as they are a divise of the devil to ruin people. then on the offering envelopes they have a place to put your credit card number. Now that was good one
July 10th, 2008 at 6:28 am
They’re not at all like the way I envisioned WoF folks to be, and so perhaps I’m guilty of having formed a stereotype based on the negatives.
Kathi, can you honestly get a feel for what they’re all about through a few friendly little conversations? Of course all is well behind their doors, they’ve already bought it hook line and sinker - their job now is to sell it to others.
Don’t the experiences of all those that are close to you mean anything anymore Kathi?
And Rev, at one time I had gotten to know them all well. Looking back, I wish I hadn’t.
Have a good one.