Quick Question for Bud
No, actually, two quick questions -
How did you find this site? (Just curious - I could probably sort it out from the weblogs, but I’m lazy and you could just tell me) … if it was via search, do you recall what specific terms you were searching for?
and
Can you point out to me one person in the NT who had the “job” or “ministry” of confronting heresy in the Body of Christ, who was not:
- divine
- an apostle
- personally commissioned by the apostles
- a pastor caring for his own flock
I’m not sure any one person fits the last one, but an easy biblical case can be made for me, say, correcting BillyBob, who is a member of the church I pastor.
Since I’m assuming that you’re neither divine nor an apostle, and since you yourself say that the apostles are long dead (which I disagree with, but that’s beside the point), and since I’m not a member of your flock and last I checked, you were not a pastor… could you clearly outline for me a New Testament example of your ministry?
July 18th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
KAthy,
I gave you a plethora of verses dealing with the Word’s insistence that all of us deal with heresy, and confronting, and the biblical command to have nothing to do with tose that would allow angelic beings to “teach” them anything contrary to the Word. Ibeleive Bentley and Paul Cain and Bob Jones miserably fail that test. I also mentioned to very alarming anti-biblical things that Bentley has mentioned that have occured in his life. One is the angle Emma, who now Bentley claims is a male angel, or male looking angel. This is in stark contrast to what he and Jones have described her to be in the past. Or let’s call it “covering your tracks,” because of the rebuke he has received. Or in other words he is either lyin and or deceived in what he “sw.’ The other major issue, is with his visitation from the person of Jesus Christ, who in Bentley’s OWN WORDS, thought he was being tormented by a satanic being, becasue he was prophesying all night. He then descrobes a non-glorified “Jesus”, who Bentley knew he was “real” because the bedsprings squeaked, and Jesus gave him the affirmation that he (Bentley that is), was esssentially pure in heart. Hmmm, reallly now. This “Jesus” also smelled like vanilla and cinnamon. Sounds again more like this “Jesus” had a Starbucks latte’ before visting Bentley. No offense Starbuck’s there yummy! I have a question. Have you ever noticed that the Word of Faither’s the real “superstars”, the Copelands’, the Duplantis’, the Oral Roberts of this world claim to have seen “Jesus.?” And yet, every single one of them who have HUGE multi miilion dollar “ministries”, homes, high end German imports, and outrageously expensive clothes, and basically tour the world with the same heresy. Give to tis ministry and you will prosper. False hood after falshood, after falsehood, revealed and exposed,a nd yet folks still pump hundreds of millions into their coffers. And is infuriating that people still defend clear biblical confrontataion, to thave nothing to do with these who do so. Bentley oft has been quoted, essentiall, you want a miracle, the more you give the more you receive. It is heretical, it is bl;asphemoous,a nd it does demonstrate at least to many of us that this man is to bbe avoided.
July 18th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Hey, Ron… I thought you were getting out of the heresy hunting business? That’s what you told me in email, anyway.
Well Ron… I saw Jesus.
I don’t see anything “clear” about the methods of “biblical confrontation” that the heresy hunters espouse, Ron.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Ron - I’m Jules from the UK, and I’ve known Kathi and Ken for about 4 years now. I served with her under Exwitch. We’ve travelled to stay in their home twice, and everything Kathi says in her comment about how they live is true. She is most decidedly not WOF; she and I may disagree profoundly about Todd Bentley and Lakeland (I wouldn’t touch the movement with a mile-long bargepole), but she is not open to the charges of the prosperity gospel.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Jules! We miss you guys!! When are you coming to the States again??
July 18th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
What I said, was I wasn’t going to be so “mean”. My confrontation of them is by name is because THEY are the ones precahing another Christ, and we are called to confront them, and if so by name, and not some generic broad sweeping of the teaching itself. Paul did. Good enough for me. And my charge is not against Kathi with the WOF label, Todd Bentley, and the individuals egging him on to me would fall into that camp. GODTV with the Alec’s especially Wendy Alec’s bl;asphemous prophecy of Jesus physically manifesting himself in one of those meetings. Wendy Alec promulgated that, Bentley regurgitated this heresy, and then attempted to back track and down play what she INSISTED she heard. Yet no rebuke, no discipline, just a tacid wave of the hand and on to the next “Tales from the mind of Todd Bentley.” Still no verifications from Fresh Fire, of healings or resurrections. You criticized ABC’s Nightline. I too am troubled, troubled that the world sees this transparent fallacy, the Body of Christ or at least some, keep defending the indefensible. Here is a great quote, from someone willing to die for the truth, one who confronted the heresies and money laundering scam that was and is Roman Catholicism, here’s Martin Luther’s thought, and I would much rather follow his example and the FRUIT of that ministry and what it brought the world when it came to making Christ known, and exposing the false prophets of any fgeneration. “I am not permitted to let my love be so merciful as to tolerate andendure false doctrine. When faith and doctrine are concerned and endangered, neither love nor patience are in order…. when these are concerned, neither toleration nor mercy are in order, but only anger, dispute, and destruction — to be sure, only with the Word of God as our weapon.” - Martin Luther.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Ron, I wish you’d just listen to yourself.
I don’t have a problem with the fact that you’ve got problems with TB. It’s how you express it.
I’m headed to the doctor’s on Monday - even though ABC doesn’t seem to care about documented healings (I offered!), I do plan to ask her for documentation that I can send to FF along with a signed release.
Now, I’m not sure about Wendy’s prophecy about Jesus manifest at a meeting… but if Ken and I had a church meeting where He failed to show up, we’d be on our knees finding out why.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Ron, did you read my OP?
>> Paul did. Good enough for me.
I’m asking about the qualifications to hunt heresy. Paul did. The apostles did. Jesus did. Pastors are instructed to.
Are you an apostle? Or Jesus? Or my pastor? Or Todd Bentley’s?
Just curious.
July 18th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Not sure, Kathi - finances are a bit of a problem with the downturn in the economy, and we’re having to tighten our belts. May be a couple of years but we do want to come back
Email me, hun? I want to update you on what God’s been doing but I’ve lost your email addy.
July 18th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
That’s because when Jesus returns Kathi it is going to be in a “meeting” whehter it’s at this alleged Outpouring, nor at your church, nor mine, nor any other. And if you are ever find yourselves on your knees regarding a failed prophecy like that, then quite honestly, you are qualified theologically to be lading anyone in my opinion. It’s delusional to think that he is coming any different thatn what scripture articualtes and the record of that is 2,000 years old, not like the other failed prophecies, from Charles Taze Russell, Jehovah Witness founder, or the Moromon Chruch, or William Branham, who lying tongue and one of Bentley’s hereos, yes the same man Bobo Jones credits emma to have visited, is now supposedly the “healing angel” in these meetings. But “wink, wink” we aren’t supposed to mention this because there are no Heresy Hunters mentioned in scripture. Paul when he saw it called it out, so did Jesus, so did the Old Testamnet prophets.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
So guys - if we discern personally that something is wrong, what do we do next? Do we just shut up and keep it to ourselves? Do we speak out of concern for others who are being deceived? Do we turn it into our mission? What?
You won’t find me supporting GodTV - Rory and Wendy Alec will have to answer to God for having provided a platform for all the nonsense disseminated across the board. The decent bits on there are few and far between indeed. I wouldn’t expose a non-Christian nor a young Christian to it, and I remain astounded at the people who do actually support it and the level of dangerous spiritual deception which operates through it.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:10 am
>>Do we turn it into our mission?
Some people do, Jules… live, breathe, sleep, eat, and defecate it all over. I’m convinced that the only time “Jesus” comes to mind is to condemn something.