A couple observations about the Lakeland Revival
Posted by Kathi on July 22, 2008
As most people know, Ken and I have watched/participated in this revival for most of it’s 111 nights thus far. We’ve missed some due to church, travel, etc… but not too many.
This week’s services have been particularly GREAT – Todd preached the other night on Romans 8:11 (And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.), Steven Strader the night before last, and Roy Fields ministered last night. Among excellent preaching and faithfulness to the Word, he also does the funniest impressions 
is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodiesAnyways, some thoughts have occurred to me over time.
#1 – A great many of the people on stage claiming healing have back and/or joint trouble. Todd tells them to do something they couldn’t do before and invariably they bend over to touch their toes.
Has anyone noticed that well over two thirds of them can not only touch their toes, they can actually put their hands on the floor? Only a couple of them look like they might have been in a gym or physical therapy in the last decade or so.
#2 – I’ve seen the following charges levied by the heresy hunters:
- “When Billy Graham went into an area, he always had a team for follow-up” They got the people into local churches.
- “There’s too little/no documentation of the healings at Lakeland.”
- “Todd Bentley rakes in the cash every night!”
Okay.
As an aside, the same people hooting that Billy Graham did it right are awfully quick to condemn him, too, for alleged sins. Don’t be fooled.
But back onto topic: Firstly, when Billy Graham went into an area, it was generally for a one-time meeting or short-term set of meetings for local believers. Sure, people might’ve travelled within the state/geographic region to hear him… but I’m not thinking anybody from Korea heard he’d be preaching in Kentucky and showed up, got saved, and needed somebody to find them a local church in Korea!
Could it be done at Lakeland? Sure. (and who knows, maybe they ARE finding churches for people – the ones making the charge haven’t been there. I was already saved when I was there, so I didn’t get to go off with the ones just prayed for to meet with the pastor… :::cough cough cough:::)
But if it was done at Lakeland, it would take a dedicated base of staff to do.
Just like the medical. Todd’s said that he’s got a team he’s called in to evaluate the medical reports.
These two things you don’t put in the hands of volunteers (Unless they’ve been with you for a season and you know them well – and even then the lawyers would say no to the medical). In any case volunteers Todd’s known a while would come from Canada… they’d still need their expenses paid, to move to Florida…
So – let’s assume [these are my estimates and have zero bearing on reality] that Todd’s got ten people working 40 hours a week on medical reports, and another ten people working forty hours a week on finding churches for new believers (it’s actually harder than you think to do this…). Let’s assume he pays each of them ten bucks an hour. So, that’s eight grand a week that he needs JUST for these two functions. (Don’t forget, somebody’s got to pay for those big lights – pay for the tent – pay for maintenance and cleanup at two locations – pay the salaries of the speakers and musicians (even Todd, BTW).
Oh, but I hear a roar. Todd says his salary’s set by his board of directors and he gets paid by the ministry.
Where do you suppose the ministry’s funds come from? Trees? or out of chicken eggs?
No, when Todd goes from place to place, he gets paid by the sponsoring church either via honorarium or love offering. That $ goes into the ministry’s budget, out of which he gets paid, the office staff gets paid, the office light bill gets paid… Todd’s not been many places, now has he? So it stands to reason that he’s getting that same old-same old paycheck from money he’s bringing in nightly in Lakeland.
Anyone want to dispute the fairness of that? I sure hope not.
And I was going to say more, but I’ll save it for a future post.
Comments
30 Responses to “A couple observations about the Lakeland Revival”Leave a comment, and if you'd like your own picture to show up next to your comments, go get a gravatar!
“There’s too little/no documentation of the healings at Lakeland.”
Whether or not there documentation really does not change if a person is healed. I see very little proof that most of these critics are saved. But if they say they are I take them at their word.
ROFL Carl…
Some of them I believe are saved, but misguided. Others I’m reasonably sure are not. If their Jesus inspires them to THAT level of hatred of people… that’s not the Jesus I know and love.
I think at this point I’ll bow out as I can see where this is going. Call me a heresy-hunter if you wish for daring to test and stand firm on what God has shown me AND be concerned for the people stuck on the carousel. God bless to you all.
Jules m’dear – there’s a difference between testing and standing on the Word as you see it, and making it your life’s mission to ensure that the rest of the world tests and sees the way you test and see. I’ve never known you to do the latter… and that is what a heresy hunter is.
We test the water, we test the fruits. We will always have different views as long as we have a free will. But we must always respect the other persons views and agree to disagree, but keep Jesus at the lead of all we do. We can argue to doomsday on this or other subjects, but the main thing is, souls being saved. What we have to be careful of is people that come to Christ under an emotional state, and then there is no followup by the local church. That is what is being done by Dr Atwood in Kannapolis in August. He has gotten with local pastors and invited them to come to the revival so that people will be able to connect to a local pastor in the area.
Rev, that’s great!
But what would his team do if he had 3-10000 folks a night show up from out of state for his services?
He would have a heart attack, lol. I would have to say there must be alot of churches in Lakeland they need to be teamed up with the local churches there. We have more than enough churches in the area of Concord and Kannapolis, problem is getting them to get rid of religion and tradition to work for the common goal
Hey Kathi!
Long time hey
Not too sure – I mean an Angel that dumps gold all over people? There is just so, so, so much stuff in this gathering that really send off alarm bells….
What alarms bells you hearing Anita
Gidday Rev,
You know what – the thing that I had to admit to myself was that I had been watching ALLOT of You tubes that featured dramatic music, snips of Bentley’s preaching prolly out of context followed by equally out of context scripture to ‘back up’ snips of preaching. Its been enuff to make me feel more than a bit uncomfortable with what is going on at Lakeland. But thats not necessarily an accurate account is it? Im not able to go to one of his meetings since I live on the other side of the planet. Just on what I have heard, it sounds like exhaltation of angels and ruff n tumble exhibition from a very charismatic dude that knows how to win a crowd over….
Anita,
I take it you’re from Oz. The Todd Show will be playing in a venue near you in the not too distant future.
You could watch the revival on God.tv in their On Demand section and judge for yourself what is going on.
I’ve seen the gold dust and feathers and gemstones and you know what? They are just fun. Have you ever wondered if maybe sometimes God just decides to show up and play with his kids?
I know the Lord shows at all of our services and we all have fun
Anita – I’ve heard Todd talk about angels – a LOT. But then he sees them a lot, so that makes sense. I’ve heard him say that God sent an angel to do a specific task, all glory be to Jesus for that work. (But do note, he doesn’t always say it so succinctly. Todd talks rather like the apostle Paul, only his run-on sentences go longer and they don’t always end… and sometimes they stop, mid-air, only to be picked back up a few sentences later. This trait of his has led to several of those videos, because it’s easy in a clip to make him say something that he really DIDN’T say.)
You should definitely go to God.tv, and also poke around the ignitedchurch.com website. Be sure to watch some of the morning meetings, too. Whereas the evening services tend to be healing/miracle meetings – less preaching, more fire – the AM meetings that I’ve watched have been teaching about what’s happening, line by line and precept by precept.
I think the gold dust and feathers and gemstones and all of that are God having fun, too. I’d heard of it but never seen it until fairly recently, where a fine shimmery gold dust appeared over one of my arms and my face at a meeting. I’ve racked my brain trying to come up with logical ways for that to have happened, but it defies logic. It’s just cool.
Ok, thanks for your pointers on how he talks and how easy it is to have what he is saying disjointed by anyone that wants it to be so. On a side note; Ive had the gold dust on my hands after a worship service in a rather small country church years ago. It hasnt done much for my faith – its God carrying me through hardships that has strengthened my faith and nope – not really fun – just baffling and a trifle weird not to mention it caused jealousy in someone that didnt get it on her hands…but thanks for your thoughts and it helps as I try and sift through it all. Blessings, Anita
the thing we must remember is so many denominations teach against healing, tongues, and the other things that alot of us have witnessed or even experienced. When I had a major heart attack in 1993 I was told I would be in the hospital for two to three weeks and I said no way I have to sing Sunday morning and this was on Wednesday. I coded out that night, and I said Lord I know your still in the healing business and I expect to sing on Sunday. Friday at 4pm I was released and sent home, now they can’t even find scar tissue from that heart attack. Many people just need to know that there are things we will never understand, but once you have experienced it, its hard to deny it.
Hey Rev…
“Once you’ve experienced it, it’s hard to deny it”
is precisely what we’ve been saying about Lakeland/related topics.
Kathi,
Experiencing some of the things is okay. I and you know have problems with certain things that have happened. I won’t ever deny that God will move even when the enemy is in control. I just in my years of ministry don’t believe the things of what we have discussed, the violent acts, the proof of tatoos after conversion. I am not going to say God hasn’t move on people.
But just because something is experienced dosnt necessarily mean it is validated as biblical. The only thing that validates something as “of God” is if it can be found in the word of God. This is the measure we should all take regarding Lakeland – experiences aside. I note a transcript from one of Todd’s services in which he speaks of having been transported to Pauls “cabin” and Paul says to him “not everything is in the Bible Todd”. Dosnt that sound a touch odd to you Kathi? The thing is that everything we need to know for now is in the Bible and what “we know in part” is exactly what is needed for this age.
Anita,
Your assesment of what was told to Todd by Paul can really be summed up like this. I believe that what is written in the bible is exactly what the Lord wanted us to know and no more. I don’t believe we know everything that was going on when Jesus walked on earth, but then again don’t believe we would have enough space in our homes to accomadate all that could have been written. I look at the Bible as Biblical instructions before leaving earth. We have what we need to get us to asking Jesus into our hearts and to be able to walk daily. If there is more and I believe there is, God didn’t see the need for us to know anymore. I have a problem with the transport thing, but thats me with all the years of service to Christ. I will never say never, but I have problems with anyone having contact with anyone but Jesus. Again thats me
I am refresh by the fact that My Jesus gives us what we at the time we need it. To many times we try on our own and we get way ahead of God and thats when we fall down. I have fallen down, but its how I get back up again that counts. I know we must seek the Lord with all of our heart and if we will do this, then we will hear from God and he will let us know what is of him and what isn’t. Keep your eyes focused on him and never on a man. Lord showed me in prayer this morning that we concentrate on man to much and all of a sudden, we are talking about the man, and forgetting about who God really is. When we focus on what the man is doing, then we lose the fact that man can’t do a thing unless its of God and God does the healing, he does the preaching, he just uses man as an instrument. When man is in the forefront, then God is in the back
I don’t think that his statement is out of line with the Word of God. Consider all the things we do that aren’t mentioned in the Word – ranging from Sunday School to marriage retreats to blogs and internet outreaches. (and I could list a lot more)
These things aren’t (necessarily) bad although not mentioned in the Bible. Neither are other things – even supernatural things.
God didn’t see the need for us to know IN ADVANCE more than what’s in the Bible… that doesn’t mean that He doesn’t want us to know it.
Consider, too, that all through the course of Biblical history, people were discovering more and more about God. Why should that discovery stop just because the ink’s dry? God doesn’t change, but man’s only gotten a glimpse of Him thus far… and He’s given us an open invite to know Him more and more.
Well, the problem Rev is not only being swept away by a man and his teachings, but being swept away by the movement itself.
I was one of the unfortunate. My focus was never on a ‘man’, but on a movement, the WOF movement, or whatever one chooses to call it.
These teachings to me at the time were completely scriptual – I was 100% sure it was all of God. I was also sure at the time that my eyes were continued on God and his word, but with time realized I was caught in a web that proved to be more powerful than I could ever have imagined.
I had been greatly disillusioned. And God, I guess, allowed this as I had accepted it as truth.
So, all this to say, in time I fell and fell hard, and I have yet to recover many years later.
It can all look so good – it can all seem so right. And it is not necessarily the focus on a man that can bring one down, but the power behind the teachings. Because let’s face it, most, and I repeat, most, Christians know not to focus on man. But, can most discern what is of God and what is not of God when they are emotionally swept away by such a zealous and exciting ministry as this?
Donna, that is why revivals are good for some and bad for others. We don’t need to get caught up on the emotions of others but seek the true and living God for what he has for us. I had a young praise leader who use to get upset that people were not getting up and praising God the way she thought they should. I took her aside one day. I said to her that some people can worship without making any sound or getting bosterous. Some people can just sit there quietly and be in more of a worship than you would ever imagine. Donna please understand that man will hurt you but God never does. Keep focus on him and if you ever want to comunicate away from here let me know.
Kathi, how is ya a doing? I know there is more to what is written, all I believe is that its mostly what we need as most people won’t understand any more and thats the way it was
Donna: “Christians know not to focus on man”
The cure for this is to take what you have received and begin to give it away.
The Kingdom of Heaven was never meant to be something to be done in a corner.
Jesus sent the Apostles out by two’s so Donna find a great friend in Christ and give it your all.
Simply wanted to point out that the worry should not only be for people following a man, but also of the movement itself.
Seems here we keep addressing how one should not focus too much on a man and his teachings, but more on the word of God. But these teachings are quite cunning and powerful, and just by following them, in my opinion, is where the danger lies.
What I’m trying to say, and I’m not sure I’m doing a very good job, is that one can say they don’t follow someone in particular, and probably they don’t. But this ministry itself is what can destroy a human being. My opinion of course.
Donna would say you are using the gift of discernment here. Just allow God to speak to you and you will be fine. Always a danger in following a man. Alot of Pastors have people who follow them and when they on vacation, people stay away. Have seen this to many times in the past.
We must be careful not to set the format inwhich God can or cannot move for His own glory; as well as suggest whom He may use. I believe that the revival is a genuine move of God with all its mixed bag of apples: flesh and the spirit, divine and the humane, wheat and tares, light and darkness. It’s clear that God will look beyond our petty doctrines which only cause divisions and does what He does best: show humanity how much He loves them and how much He cares. What is so offensive about it all, is the calvalier antics and circus like atmosphere that is sometimes displayed along with some very unwise interjections (like allowing personal prophecies to be spoken or read during the telecast). Alas, we all have so much to learn. I would not however, label the entire movement as false. If satan has stepped into this movement, and I believe he has, then he is working equally on the side of those who so narrow mindedly criticize and justify their views with out-of-context scriptures and doctrinal bias. In the face of it all, Jesus’ preistly prayer that “they might be one” shall prevail.. For a great read check out “A Step Into Deliverance” by T. Pugh. It is a riveting autobiography about one pastor’s journey into the deliverance ministry. A real page-turner!
Nice post Ray. God can move any place and any time he wants. Man is what makes it unpleasant for others who want a move of God