I don’t think I’ve ever felt more strongly about something.
Posted by Kathi on October 17, 2008
I think I’ve just gotten into trouble on the forum I’m part of.
Somebody posted that many “godly” people support Barack Obama’s bid for the presidency. I commented and said, “That’s an oxymoron” – which is a violation of the rules, technically (we’re not supposed to make judgment calls on whether someone’s a Christian or not).
My thoughts: Can a godly person support a man who advocates the for-profit slaughter of the unborn?
I’m entirely tempted to print out pictures of aborted babies and plaster them on every Obama-Biden sign in town…
Anyone voting for Obama is NOT “godly”. They can feel free of course to disagree. But one day I’ll explain this post to God – and they’ll have to explain their vote.
Comments
44 Responses to “I don’t think I’ve ever felt more strongly about something.”Leave a comment, and if you'd like your own picture to show up next to your comments, go get a gravatar!
Not my country, but I wouldn’t vote for him. I tell you what is an oxymoron (and this isn’t aimed at anyone in particular) – someone who is against abortion but pro the death penalty. If you’re going to be pro-life, do it properly!
” (we’re not supposed to make judgment calls on whether someone’s a Christian or not).”
Don’t Christians do that on a daily basis?
Jules, I’m not sure I agree with you. Abortion is the killing of the innocent. The death penalty is usually the killing of one who has killed.
I don’t claim to know much of the bible anymore, but doesn’t it say something about ‘an eye for an eye’ and ‘live by the sword, die by the sword’?
I don’t know, to me they’re just two totally different things.
But is voting for McCain much better, when you consider that he favors destroying human embryos for stem cell research?
Jules, I agree with Donna on this one.
I’m pro-death penalty in principle, but often not in practice. There is a difference between murdering an innocent unborn baby in the place it should be safest, and executing a dangerous criminal. My problem with the DP is that there is a possibility of an innocent person being executed.
Dave, we often do. The One who matters, though, is God.
Oengus, I don’t agree with McCain on everything. Embryonic stem cell research is a biggie. Especially when confronted with the evidence that other sorts of stem cells can be used…
But the choice really amounts to this:
Vote for a man who says we must embrace evil (or he will stamp us out), or vote for a man who says that he’ll do something about the evils of our day?
I have seen to much to not decide that right now Obama is for Obama not America. It will be sad day if he wins. Americans need to know the back ground and what he truly believes in. I stand on the principal that McCain has served this country in the worst of conditions and will lead us in the future.
I guess I take the view that Jesus had the option of approving the death penalty on the woman caught in adultery, who was clearly guilty, and didn’t; in fact He challenged the religious leaders on their right to do so, even though it was within the OT law (although possibly not allowed under the then-current Roman law for the province).
Secondly, if we execute a criminal, are we depriving them of the time they might need to accept Jesus? How can we be sure that our timing is God’s timing on that? It’s one thing to say God decides when each of us dies, but that opens up all kinds of philosophical and theological questions.
Thirdly, the possibility of executing innocent people, even with advances in DNA forensic techniques, means it’s a no-no for me. Read up on Timothy Evans and Derek Bentley in the UK.
After a consultation on and off over a period of 30 years, the death penalty was abolished in the UK in 1969, and I hope it never comes back. I’ve actually done some research into lethal injections, gas and the electric chair, and it’s barbaric. If you’re going to execute people, at least do it cleanly with a shot to the back of the head.
But then I’d reform our prison service, make it more of a deterrent, make it less idle and more productive, teach skills to those who will eventually get out (some never should). Over here right now a drunk-driver can mow someone down with a car and get let off with a fine. That’s not justice.
Here’s a current case for what a convicted criminal can get away with under our current ‘prison’ system:
[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1078547/Inmate-holiday-camp-jail-able-18-000-year-time-job-visit-girlfriend--carry-armed-raid-post-office.html]Link[/url]
Where do you guys stand on euthanasia?
On stem cell research, there have been some recent articles on using umbilical cords, placentas, testicular/sperm cells. All good by me.
Obama is a Christian, which means that he holds himself accountable to the same god you do. Rather than attributing the worst motives to him and to those who honestly feel that he is the best choice, wouldn’t it be more neighbourly of you to either ask him to explain his position, or assume that he is acting in good faith?
Oh boy, I wake up everyday crying out to God, have mercy on us!!
Kathi, the slaughter of the unborn is so important right now, everything hinges on this election.
If Obama wins, it is in the toilet!!
I won’t vote for him for myriads of reasons but this is ONE of the top reasons. That and legalizing same sex marriage, what next, neighborly pedophelia as a sexual preference that you were born with, UM, that is a big IF you were born.
I wrote a long reply yesterday – is it stuck in your queue, Kathi?
caffantastic that is why Obama on an MSNBC interview when asked what religion do you profess and he said I am Muslin, ooops I mean Christian. Alot of people use the term “Christian” but are far from it. My point is there are questions he was asked and he won’t answer them.
Jules, nothing has come in my email by way of notifications, but I’ll go check the comments and see.
Cat, everyone is accountable to God. Period. Obama’s done plenty of explaining of his socialist/slaughter philosophy. I assume that to him, he is acting in good faith. He obviously thinks he is right.
I suppose that Obama being a “Christian” depends on what criteria one uses to mean, “Christian”.
If you mean a man who goes to church (once in a while) and names himself a Christian and speaks of how he’s come to the truth – well, sure. That’d be Obama.
But if you mean the actual definition of CHRISTian – one who is in Christ – no, he is not.
We’ve got bigger issues than the salvation of a potential next president (not diminishing the issue)… people are actually worshiping him, calling him “messiah” and even “Obama is my Jesus.”
Erk!
I will say this, at this point I don’t believe it makes a difference who becomes President in Nov. There will be no peace coming until Jesus comes to take the church home. We are headed for some troubled times and I want to have my life more ready than ever before. So its not about anyone but Jesus
I hadn’t thought that another person could say conclusively whether or not a self-identifying Christian was “in Christ”…
I googled “Obama + Messiah” and found three sets of results: Louis Farrakhan, who is not a Christian; people saying rather loudly that Obama is NOT the messiah, and a couple of tongue-in-cheek mentions.
I have, however, months ago, seen a McCain campaign ad that subtly suggests, using Left Behind imagery, that Obama is the [i]Antichrist[/i]. Which I really think is bad form.
I for one am darned impressed with his politics (and to address the above comment, this would still be true if he [i]were[/i] a Muslim, which I don’t think he is), but I don’t think he’s any kind of second coming of anyone. If he were, I wouldn’t support him; as America’s situation is new, one must think and act anew.
Oh, bother. Sorry about the italics.
Cat, first of all what do you feel is impressive about his politics? Just curious.
Second, if the whole antichrist thing is true, and if I recall correctly, then I don’t think Barack even fits the prophetic criteria, so the rumors are just silly.
But even if his life did fulfill the prophecy, I believe that those that aren’t ‘in christ’ would not have a clue to his true identity anyway.
I also think it would be far too bold for one that doesn’t follow christ to say that they would never follow the antichrist, as I’m thinking the spiritual power behind the man would be way too strong for one to resist on their own. That’s just my opinion of course.
But no, it’s not Obama – though I could see him being great buddies with the guy…he’s already got himself an ‘in’ with alot of the right people.
Donna, I went to his website looking for things that I could nitpick, just to say, “Look, just for the record, I don’t agree with him completely because he’s far too conservative for me,” but I couldn’t find anything with which I could really take issue. I liked his positions on foreign policy, taxes, poverty, health care, the environment…pretty much everything I checked. I don’t know that all of what he has planned is stuff that I would want for Canada, but your situation is different from ours, and he’s promising to do just about everything I wish America would do.
I didn’t say that I wouldn’t support him if he were the Antichrist; I wouldn’t support him if he were anyone’s second coming.
Mind you, I doubt I’d fall prey to any kind of “spiritual power.” The power of the Antichrist and Satan are predicated on the acceptance of a Judeo-Christian-Islamic worldview that I no longer subscribe to. If it looks like a messiah, I’m more likely to roll my eyes and change the channel.
At this moment I really can’t say much in what I beleive to be true, but one thing I do know, if all goes the way scripture says it will then the antichrist will have that kind of power over non-christians – it will be far stronger than you or I.
And Obama too conservative for you? Wow!
Jules – not sure why akismet grabs the occasional comment and labels it spam, but that’s what happened to your long reply.
I agree with you 1000% about the potential of innocent people being executed. However, I have no problem with unrepentant folks who’ve confessed (bin Laden, Dahmer, etc.).
Definitely with you on the concept of prison reform. Cable TV? Conjugal visits? Please.
I won’t come out and say that OB=AC – but I will say that I’ve never seen person-worship like this before. People are positively loony about it!!
One thing I don’t get is Obama’s insistence that money be taken from the rich and given to the poor. Of course it’s socialism no matter how you look at it (a poop by any name…) but what I don’t get is why anyone would think it’s a good idea.
Don’t get me wrong – as I’ve stated before, we live on a modest income, in a very humble little house, driving older cars. We wouldn’t mind having more money (tho I’m not sure we’d spend much on nicer “things”). But I surely don’t want money that someone else has earned. Why would I? It’s not mine. It’s not the government’s to take and give to me.
Makes absolutely NO sense to me.
Cat – you might be correct. The AC (whoever he is) will have widespread approval and there will be many who follow him. True Christians (people who love Jesus) will not. But there will also be others.
The Bible says that the AC will execute the people who refuse to take his mark (swear allegiance to him – forever).
It’s not an end to the earthly life that I’d choose (I’m rather fond of my head’s attachment to the rest of my body)… but I’m ready (and am likewise ready should I be taken out by more natural means).
Are you ready?
Yup, you’re right Kathi, there will be those killed that refuse to worship him. Though I assumed the only ones that would not are those that have heard the gospel and have been ‘pre-chosen’ for salvation. Those that have no interest in christianity and know nothing about it I wouldn’t think would not have a chance against the power that the anitichrist will possess.
“People are positively loony about it!”
Probably a reaction to eight years of “W”.
It was like that in the UK – Blair was seen as absolutely wonderful after all the Conservative years of unemployment and 15% interest rates under Thatcher, and it then took him and his cronies only a decade to dismantle the country … it’ll go the same way in 2010 with the Conservatives under David Cameron. It’ll be another personality-cult.
Okay, I’m not sure I’m wording any of this right, and since I wrote my last post on the fly this AM –
Tell me if I’m wrong Kathi – I was once led to believe that the only ones that would refuse the mark of the beast would be those that would be saved at the end -those amongst the chosen few. I mean for what reason would those that have denied scripture and or never entertained the thought refuse the mark(the only way to buy or sell at that point)?
As far as the antichrist having complete power to persuade, well this would only make sense. History has shown time and again that people are easily fooled and led astray. On a small scale just look at the numbers falling over every word that comes out of Obama’s mouth. How much more power will the true antichrist have?
So I still say…
‘it would be far too bold for one that doesn’t follow christ to say that they would never follow the antichrist, as I’m thinking the spiritual power behind the man would be way too strong for one to resist on their own. That’s just my opinion of course.’
Kathi, I look at taxes as being a user fee for capitalism. No one would be earning it if governments didn’t provide the structure for the market. I don’t see capitalism as a bad thing, but I do think that inequality is built into it, and people disenfranchised by that inherent inequality ought not to suffer undue hardship. If it were possible for those people to run off to the woods, build a little cabin, and live off the land, then it might be reasonable to expect them to do that, but under the current system they can’t. We pay taxes so that the system can be both competitive and humane.
As for the Antichrist, it’s a tough call. I’d be tempted to take the mark of the beast just to be able to say I’d done it (the way I paid an extra $1.50 a month in rent all last year just to make it up to $666), but I would most certainly refuse to swear allegiance to anyone who thought it was all right to start chopping off heads for any reason. But yeah, I’m all ready to roast for the cause.
And as far as Obama’s persuasive power…heck, that’s just communicative competence. I can do that, and I know how to take it apart, too. There’s no way he or I or anyone exercising that kind of mojo can actually make you believe anything against your will, or your better judgement, although we hope we might point out things you hadn’t thought of before, or frame the issue in a way that helps you see it from our point of view.
We must realize that there will be leaders in the world that will quickly align with the anitchrist. Its up to us as believers to seek God for who he would want us to vote for. to me the only thing that has kept the US from distruction is our backing of Israel. Once we turn our back on them, then watch out.
I agree Rev. Watch Israel closely or rather watch what others choose to do with her.
Yep – I’d agree on that as well.
Did you see how Obama wants to visit the 57 states of Islam and how the radical muslims support him?
That is enough for me to run the other way…
Kelly, statements like that are what make it imperative for the next president, whoever he is, to go to Islamic countries and do some serious diplomacy, then come back and do some serious education. I mean, it sounds like you suggest that Muslims are enemies to the extent that someone who visits them is an enemy too. That sentiment, from either side, isn’t really conducive to peace.
I number among my friends a lot of moderate Muslims, and I have cordial relations with a few conservative ones as well. They are human beings–sometimes rather spectacular ones. Most have the ability and the willingness to engage in rational, respectful dialogue. They tend to bristle at the implication that they are monolithic, culturally inferior, or evil incarnate, and while I hate to generalize, I think it’s pretty safe to apply this observation to the Islamic world at large, because I sure know it applies to the Western one.
There are Islamic sects that see themselves fundamentally in opposition to the West, good against evil. They’re the ones who think that killing might help achieve some greater good, and that martyrdom will garner rewards in heaven. And the US has largely been all too willing to play their game.
catfantastic you don’t have to get in bed with them to be diplomatic.
I live in the most concentrated area in the US for muslims. I have been around. We evangelize them.
You can not seriously have diplomacy with dictators nor extremists.
We obviously beg to differ.
Hey there, Kathi, “Nu” here -long time no see! Checking out your blog here.
It seems you and Ken were involved in an accident recently and it seems your head got “conked” mighty rough from what I’ve read. Hope you both mend just fine, prayers for y’all & take good care.
Now, as to “Anyone voting for Obama is NOT “godly””. I would somewhat disagree. Good, godly people can – and certainly too often do – make ungodly _choices_ . Christian folks aren’t immune from wrong thinking, wrong action and the truly “honest mistakes”.
I would agree on your take in a more global sense, not just on Obama’s extremist pro-abortion stance, but certainly dumping babies in a closet to die after having survived an abortion attempt is nothing short of barbaric.
In the “holisitic” sense – that is, in every way – Obama just is not fit for the office. When even his running mate promises Obama’s weakness and inexperience would invite “at least four or five” grave, imminent outside dangers from those who hate America, you just know that aint a good sign. Somehow I just don’t see guarantees of multiple “Instant Armageddons” by a VP candidate as a motivator to push the lever for Obama.
So it’s not just a matter of Obama’s disregard of infant human life. It’s that the whole ball of leader-of-the-free-world wax is, to use his own self-description, “above his pay grade”.
BTW,I have a new email addy since years past – I suspect Wordpress will send it your way with this comment when I hit the ol’ magic “submit” button.
Again, take the best of care & may God keep you & yours!
He’s not getting into bed with them; he’s visiting them. I think it’s right and necessary for him to do so.
What kind of evangelizing do you do?
Hmmm interesting…Id like to know the exact purpose of visitation though…
Obama is not evangelizing he is going to visit not spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ
We evangelize muslims by bathing them in 24/7 prayer and targeted intercession with missionaries living among them. The women are coming. This is in the USA.
here, have a rather interesting quote:
Asked what he believes, Obama said: “I am a Christian. I’m rooted in the Christian tradition. I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people. That there are values that transcend race or culture, that move us forward, and there’s an obligation for all of us individually as well as collectively to take responsibility to make those values lived.”
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78757
Kelly,
Naturally I have my doubts as to the efficacy of bathing someone in 24/7 prayer…but has anyone tried breaking bread with folks? Sitting down to a meal somewhere?
There’s a young woman at my school who has been trying to evangelize me. We meet in a pub and hang out there over beverages and lunch. I have no intention of converting, but it’s a nice, non-confrontational thing, and I think we’ve both learned heaps.
Mark, Obama may not be your kind of Christian, or Joseph Farah’s kind, but he’s just fine with Christians like Fred Clark and Anne Lamott, who are the kind of Christians that I admire as Christians, not just as wonderful human beings practicing a religion I just can’t get into.
Any person claiming to be a Christian, who doesn’t believe or try to live out what the Bible says is either backslidden or not a Christian at all. Since I cannot see into Obama’s heart, I don’t have the answer to that. That is between him and God. If he is hanging on to cultural Christianity, one day he will find out that that is not good enough.
Ahh Catfantastic, I now see where you are coming from. Of course you should not be expected to know of things of the spirit. You just can’t know.
As for breaking bread, missionaries live among them, not next to them. I assumed you knew what I meant. But of course you couldn’t know.
And Cat (if I may call you that) please never “get into” a religion. It’s caustic.
we always pray for people. but if I have come out of a drug atmosephere I pray for others but won’t go back into that atmoshpere. the thing must remember is that all Muslims don’t hate everyone. And also, the only way you can know the ways of the Spirit is to be of the Spirit of God. Those who are not born again will not know the ways of the Lord
Of course you can call me Cat! It’s my name.