Posted by Kathi on August 26, 2008
I’ve been cruising blogs this morning – I started on Tim Brownlee’s blog (see last post) and started jumping from link – to link – to link – a sort of three-dimensional web that led me to lots of new places, fascinating people, and even back to a few blogs I already read (six degrees of separation, anyone?)
Found two things of interest to everyone who’s following the Lakeland Revival/Todd Bentley and the issues therein:
The first, from Pray the Revolution, discusses heresy hunters and bereans. Good take on it.
The second, from the Prayer Room blog, talks about Todd’s comments on his situation, through Rick Joyner. I’m copying the relevant portion here – but the rest of what Rick has to say is important, too.
”Todd Bentley asked me to convey his appreciation for all the prayers, expressions of love, and concern while he tries to navigate through this present situation. He is grieved by the trouble and confusion this has caused, especially to his friends, coworkers, and all who have trusted him. He wants to make a clear statement about it, acknowledging his responsibility in this and the mistakes he made, but he feels that he should first meet with Pastor Bill Johnson, who is out of the country and will not be available for a couple more weeks. He asks that you would continue to pray for him, and he thanks those who are willing to be patient. He wants to do this right and not hastily or superficially. ”
Posted by Kathi on August 16, 2008
If you’re interested in the TB saga, you’ll enjoy reading a post over at Charismatica: Lakeland: So What Now?
I know that I, for one, don’t plan on giving up the healing, nor the blessings, nor anything else I’ve received. 
Posted by Kathi on August 11, 2008
I’m going to try to write a play-by-play of our weekend. In this post, I’ll write about our experiences at the revival meeting in Charlotte (well, really Fort Mill, SC but most everyone CALLS it Charlotte!)… and in the next I’ll tell of the miracle God did in keeping my daughter and her friends alive and uninjured in a serious car wreck.
If you want to read something REALLY cool, scroll down to the heading, “A Visit From Jesus”.
ARRIVAL
Thursday morning we packed up and headed down to Charlotte. Our hotel (Best Western Carowinds) was quite nice. They let us check in early. We got a bite to eat and headed over to Morningstar fairly early. We’d never been there before, so we drove around and saw the big field where Friday’s meeting would be, and sort of self-toured their campus.
I’d heard that Morningstar had bought the old PTL (Jim Bakker) campus, but since the whole PTL thing blew up years before I cared about what Christians did, I didn’t know about it. They sunk bazillions of dollars into the place, and apparently even though it was opulent, some of the workmanship was shoddy – especially on the high-rise apartment building that’s going in right next to the church (which meets in the former lobby of the big hotel). Opulent doesn’t even describe the hotel/indoor mall/church… it looks like something out of a fairy tale (and yes, there IS a castle on the premises too – but it seems to be boarded up for now.) Morningstar bought it for 1.6 million in terrible disrepair, and they’ve been fixing it up ever since. It seemed to us that where they were able to preserve the beauty of the place inexpensively, they’ve done so – but where that would cost too much they’ve opted for plainer and more practical.
PARTNER’S MEETING
After we registered for the partner’s meeting, we ate a nice and inexpensive lunch in the church’s Missions Cafe, then wandered through the bookstore and such. While we were eating, we got to say a quick hello to Rick Joyner. I gained a lot of respect for him over the two days we were there. Many senior pastors of important ministries expect everyone else to do the work, and the pastor expects to sit in the air conditioning and get the glory for it. Rick was out there talking with team members, making sure they had what they needed… and on Friday he was out driving a golf cart around working!!
Eventually we bought a book and got in the book-signing line. I highly recommend that everyone read Todd’s latest book – The Reality of the Supernatural World. He signed it for us, and chit-chatted, and shook our hands. I do admit that it’s nice to know that it’s possible to be touched by Todd Bentley and NOT end up on the floor!!
The partner’s meeting was nice. We weren’t sure what to expect. They talked a lot about the work in Uganda, especially with the child soldiers (made me cry!) and they took up an offering, of which 100% of it goes to that work.
IMPARTATION
Afterward, we had a healing/impartation prayer line. This time when Todd touched me I went out on the floor (most folks did) and I had an experience with God that was just incredible. I could feel the heavy weighty kabod glory of God, and peace and warmth and love flowing through me. I just lay there for a long time, just drinking in His presence. After it was over, no one wanted to leave!!
FRIDAY’S REVIVAL SERVICE
On Friday, we got up and found the Starbucks We eventually made our way over to Morningstar. It was a big open field, but fortunately the main building was open and air conditioned, so before the service started at 5, we were able to go in and rest a bit. We sure got sunburned! 
But interestingly the sunburn doesn’t hurt…
CARNIVAL?
I’m sure a lot of people who see it on GodTV or youtube will say, “It had a festival (or carnival) atmosphere”. Well, sure. If you get a coupla thousand people together in a big open field, and make sure their needs are met, it’s going look like the county fair minus the rides. People need to potty – and so there were portapotties everywhere. People need to eat, and drink, and so there were food vendors (most of which were reasonably priced!). People also brought in coolers with dinner and bottled water. Since it was in a field, most people brought lawn chairs or blankets to sit on. People want to buy stuff, so the bookstore had a tent with books and t-shirts and such. Music or video was playing. Was it a festival? Yes!
One neat thing is that it was 08-08-08 and it was 88 degrees (the temp dropped 10 degrees between Thursday and Friday — THANK GOD!!). Still hot but not enough to really cause trouble.
The worship was great, but it was a little difficult for us to get into because we didn’t know ANY of the songs. The musicians were fabulous, and we did pick up on the choruses of a few songs along the way. So, we just had to determine to worship the Lord despite that. It was good dancin’ music!!
A VISIT FROM JESUS
The first highlight of my evening was when Todd announced that they were going to have a special commissioning for ministry prayer for people ages 25-40. Bob Jones had given a prophetic word prior to the meeting about a “new breed” of Christians – which I took to mean the younger generation rising up and really believing in, and acting upon, God’s Word.
So I stood up along with hundreds and hundreds of others, and Todd prayed over us all. Mid-prayer I suddenly couldn’t really hear him any more. It’s not like I went deaf – it’s more that my focus changed and his voice became part of the background noise.
I had my eyes closed and my hands raised and I was praying to receive everything that God wanted to give me.
Suddenly my eyes were filled with light, and out of that light I saw Jesus coming toward me. I was filled with awe and holy fear and anticipation all at once. I started crying, because I could feel His love for me. He stretched out His hand (I saw the scars!!) and He touched each of my hands, and my forehead. I very nearly fell out on the ground!! Then He was gone from my vision…
I’m not sure how to describe what I felt in those moments, except that after He had gone from my vision I could sense His presence in a greater way than I ever could before. For me, that’s really saying something, because the instant I was saved I could feel Him there with me, and that sense of Him has been growing ever since. And yet Friday that grew so much more that… wow.
I also had a literal sense of commissioning, and a confidence in God and in His ability to use me, to strategically position me, to speak through me.
I’m sure the heresy hunters will have a field day with my vision of Jesus… oh well. I think I’m going to make a heresy-hunter-hunter’s site this afternoon They need to get over themselves and read the book of Acts. They might even get saved…
RAIN
At one point, Todd brought up a young man from the Morningstar school (they’ve got a K-12 school there apparently). He and several friends had been to Lakeland, got some, brought it back and kicked off revival services there – they’ve got meetings 6 nights a week! That was one on-fire kid!! During the offering, they played a video of revival services there… WOW. People giving glory to God and burning with passion for Him – healings and miracles – and twice, rain… you could see on the video that literally drops of liquid were forming out of thin air and falling from above. It was WILD!!
HEALING
Todd started to call out words of knowledge. One was for a pain in the side, which Ken’s had for months. He reports that it’s gone. There were several dramatic healings that night.
MINISTRY
When we sat down, a mom and daughter sat next to us. It was obvious that both had health problems, and that the daughter had some muscle problems. She didn’t move right, speak right, etc. God spoke to me, “crack cocaine”, torment, and the name Ashley, and several other things. We planned on praying for both of them during the healing ministry, but late in the evening the daughter took off. The mom told us she was laying down in the car, feeling really awful. So we prayed with the mom (who’s on dialysis), and went out to the car. We prayed with the daughter, confirmed the accuracy of those words of knowledge, counseled her about unforgiveness and a few other things, and ended up going out for a late-night dinner with them. Lovely people. It’s hard for me, when I do God-encounter ministry like that, because it’s rare that I find out what happened afterward. They’ve got our phone number, maybe they’ll call us one day.
CAR WRECK
We were just about to pay and leave the restaurant when my cell phone rang. Why would Kayti be calling after midnight? I answered and she burst into tears. She’d just had a car wreck… and I’ll continue about that in my next post.
Posted by Kathi on August 1, 2008
Several people have questioned my stance on faith/belief and healing, and so before I go out today I wanted to briefly address some primary reasons people are not healed.
#1 is lack of faith.
Somebody’s going to come along and say, “Yeah, well what about praying for unsaved loved ones?” It’s true that God sometimes does miracles, even healings, in the lives of unsaved people. Someone else will say, “What about the folks in the Bible who didn’t have faith to be healed?”
I think that God holds people responsible for the measure of faith they SHOULD have – for someone who’s known Him a long time, that will be much greater than someone who has no idea who Jesus is. I don’t think the man in Acts 4 who was healed outside the temple had one iota of faith – he wanted money. His mind wasn’t on healing. But the Bible also says that in one town, Jesus couldn’t do many healings because the people lacked faith. Since they’d seen His ministry before, I’m guessing that they should have had it.
#2 is lack of belief.
I maintain there’s a difference between faith and belief, and our lack of belief that God WILL do something greatly hampers us. You can read more about it in this recent post.
That said… faith/belief are not the ONLY reasons why a person is not healed.
#3 is that healing is not what is needed.
Before I was saved, I went quite nearly deaf. It started in my teens and was a very very slow process up until the year before I came to Christ, during which time I went from fully-functioning, occasionally annoyed to “gosh! I really can’t hear a thing!” The doctor actually advised me to learn sign language in case I went completely deaf. Their theory is that I had an autoimmune disorder.
Shortly after I was saved, the Lord led me through deliverance – I quite literally cast out the demons that I’d asked to live inside me as a pagan. (Here’s a testimony-related post, and my testimony itself). When I was done telling the demons to go in Jesus’ name – I could hear again, instantly. Not only that, but my restored hearing tests out better than most people’s.
What had manifested as a medical problem was really a spiritual problem.
I’ve heard others with similar testimonies – that they had anything from high blood pressure to blindness to cancer – and when the demons were cast out, the disease instantly went too – often without being prayed for or mentioned by name.
#4 is that healing is not the FIRST thing that is needed.
I also know of testimonies (including some first-hand experience in praying for others) of people who’d prayed and prayed for years for healing. Nothing happened.
Someone prayed for either a generational curse to be broken, or for “inner” healing (emotional baggage), or even for a curse or spell to be broken.
I used to not believe much in that stuff, but quite honestly I’ve seen enough that I’ve gone from total unbelief to wondering to believing that, at least sometimes, this stuff needs to be broken off before we can receive healing. Why? I don’t know exactly – I just know that I’ve talked face to face with people and seen for myself that years of devastating illness only came to an end after this sort of prayer.
#5 is closely related to #4 – there is a barrier to healing: sin.
Sin – especially the sin of unforgiveness – seems to be a barrier to receiving healing from God. I’m not implying that a Christian is capable of living a perfect, sinless life… I am however saying that if we’ve got ongoing sin issues that we’re unwilling to put under the Blood, then we’ve got no business expecting God to take care of us. Sometimes He might (He knows best) – but to trample grace yet expect it is the height of arrogance.
Likewise, unforgiveness of others keeps us from enjoying relationship with the One who forgives us.
#6 is that we really aren’t willing to accept the changes that healing will bring.
Get this – if you’re sick, you’ve got rest, sympathy, less responsibility… if you’re well, you’ve got work, expectations to fulfill, and more responsibility.
If you’re sick with a cold, you might not REALLY want instantaneous healing because you surely could use a day off to sit and watch soap operas and pamper yourself.
If you’ve been sick for a very long time, as I was, you might not REALLY want instantaneous healing because you’d very suddenly be ushered back into the “real” world where people have the right to expect things of you because you’re suddenly capable of doing those things.
Don’t believe it’s a big adjustment? I’ll talk about that sometime. It was HUGE. And I think that those factors may keep people from being healed. They’ve grown comfortable, in a way (sort of like an abused spouse?) with the status quo and are afraid of changing it.
That’s NOT to say they’re lazy and want to stay sick so they can stay lazy. I’ve yet to meet a person like that. But I’ve also yet to meet someone who doesn’t need to make themselves ready in their hearts for these changes. I’ve definitely met a few who weren’t willing to accept them, and thus have not been healed.
I also know some non-Christians who I think were not healed because they acknowledged before prayer that they were not ready to accept Jesus, and if He healed them they’d HAVE to accept He’s real, and they did not want to face that possibility.
——————
I’m sure that this isn’t every reason why a person is not healed – but it does offer some answers that aren’t immediately connected to “faith”.
Sorry this is “short” – I may come back, flesh it out, add Scripture when I’ve got time to look it up. Right now I need to finish laundry, take out the trash and the dog, and shower and dress as we’ve got a church member in hospital and I need to go up there this morning.
Posted by Kathi on July 30, 2008
[editing to add: apologies in advance for what might be my longest post ever.]
I’ve been watching the Lakeland revival for a long time now. Long enough that when it’s not on, it seems strange to watch “other” shows that were normal for us prior to revival. The revival’s been happening now for something like 112 days, and we’ve probably watched 90-95 of them. We’ve missed a few nights due to travel, and some due to church or family events. One thing that I like about it is that it’s really not about Todd Bentley. Nights he’s not there are just as good as when he’s there. We’ve been introduced to a number of preachers we’d never heard of. I’ve greatly enjoyed the preaching of Roy Fields (yes, the worship leader), Bobby Conner, and Steven Strader, and quite a few of the other Fresh Fire affiliates.
As an aside…Another thing I like is that the music is not always that great (to my ear, anyway) but that the focus is never on the musicians, not on the worship leader, it’s on Jesus and that profound sense of worship, and the anointing, are present regardless of who’s at the keyboard and whether that last note was in key (no one seems to care because their focus is above )
Anyways… our current favorite preacher is the guy who’s ministered the last two nights – Ryan Wyatt of Abiding Glory Ministries in Knoxville, TN. He’s very bright and biblically spot-on, but also funny. He’s not afraid to dish it back to the heresy hunters either . He’s made some comments about the occult that I’m not so sure about – but I’ll tell you something that I’ve not said before. I’m learning not to say, “That’s not so”… and instead say, “That’s not been my experience, nor the experience of those I’ve ministered to.” More on that later.
Ryan’s done a lot of preaching the last two nights. The man’s a whirlwind. Some of his points sum up to this – we’re not living up to our potential in the Kingdom. I know that’s probably not news to anybody – but I’d like to examine some Scripture and address some core beliefs in the church, and then invite readers to comment. Some of what is below is straight from Ryan, and some of it’s my own ruminations. Since I’ve spent much of the last two days and nights pondering what he said, it’ll be awfully difficult to sort out what’s “his” and what’s “mine” – we can just assign it all to the Lord, for His glory, and not worry about human inspirations. Also note that I’m not trying in any way to summarize all that he said, because he made a lot of other great points.
Here’s a good snippet on youtube of Ryan preaching, and what I’m about to talk about…
Point # 1 – Jesus didn’t preach a gospel of salvation. He preached the gospel of the Kingdom.
That one just comes and smacks you upside the head. “The gospel of the Kingdom” is a direct quote from Matthew 9:35 (I just found it – not sure if Ryan referenced it or not).
Jesus began His ministry by saying, “Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 4:17) and as He went, He preached salvation… and healing, and cleansing, and deliverance, and resurrection from the dead, and provision, and and and…
Why have we utterly lost track of, “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons.” (Matthew 10:8).
Salvation is necessary and what I’m about to say should not be taken to diminish that grace and gift of God in any way… but the Bible is clear that salvation is not the sum total of our inheritance from God.
Point #2 – Jesus came so that we could become sons of God.
Romans 8:14 says, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are SONS OF GOD.” (emphasis in caps is mine) and then in verse 16 and following, the indisputable word of God says, “The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs – heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ…”
Woah. What’s that mean? But wait – there’s more. Galatians 4 says that in the fullness of time, God sent Jesus to redeem us, “that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.” (emphasis mine)
Point #3 – If Jesus inherited the Kingdom of God (Hebrews 1:4), and we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, then WE ALSO inherit the Kingdom. Right along with Him.
The Holy Ghost lives within us. Our bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit. That means we carry the literal presence of God within us everywhere that we go. We carry our inheritance with us everywhere we go. No matter what situation we find ourselves in, we’re the heirs of God and He’s right there with us.
So why do we have such little effect on the world around us?
Point #4 – Salvation is only the beginning of what God wants to give us.
This hearkens back to point #1, but I wanted to bring out the other points first. If the gospel of salvation is the only good news preached (and it is indeed good news), it becomes rather like going to Disney and entering into the kingdom through the gates… but never getting on any of the rides, never hanging out with Mickey Mouse, never eating the funnel cakes… just sitting within the gates, doing nothing.
Point #5 – If the Gospel is, indeed, more than salvation, why isn’t the church living in that reality?
I’ve had conversations back and forth for a couple of years with a friend (who can comment and tell her story if she likes – I don’t have her permission to) who was very hurt when God did not heal someone important to her. The central question is, “If healing really is part of the atonement, then why doesn’t God always heal?” – which ultimately has led my friend to question the validity of the Bible and trustworthiness of God.
My answers over the years have ranged from speaking of the natural (since not everyone’s healed, since sin introduced sickness and death into the world) to sovereignty (since God is not our puppet, and since everyone dies a physical death).
I’m currently questioning that thinking – even with my own illness (see my last post).
The Bible says, “Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not His benefits: Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases, Who redeems your life from destruction, Who crowns you with lovingkindness and tender mercies, Who satisfies your mouth with good things, so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.” (Psalm 103) Why is it that Christians are willing to accept the reality of forgiveness (He doesn’t pick and choose which sins He forgives, does He? No! He forgives ALL.) and willing to accept redemption, lovingkindness and tender mercies… but don’t accept that the Bible really does say that God HEALS ALL OUR DISEASES?
I do see in the Bible that there’s a couple of examples of people not being healed… Paul, from whatever his thorn in the side was – but God communicated that to him. Trophimus was left in Miletus, sick. Was he, perhaps, our forerunner?
Perhaps it’s because the church has preached the gospel of salvation ONLY for so long that we don’t lay claim to our inheritance.
The Bible also says, “But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our inquities, The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.” Again – we’re willing to accept His wounding and bruising for our sins – why not His whipping for our healing?
I think it’s because it’s become so ingrained in our minds – even in the minds of people who KNOW and ACCEPT that healing is part of the atonement – that this inheritance is not really ours. We own it, we possess it… but we never DO anything with it. We enter into the gates of the Kingdom, but we never access any of the Kingdom’s benefits.
It’s all right for Jesus to have healed the sick and raised the dead. After all, He’s Jesus. It’s all right for the apostles to have done those things – after all, they were directly commissioned by Jesus. (But weren’t we all? Matthew 28:18-20, Mark 16:15-20)
But the Bible says that God’s no respecter of persons. The Bible says we’re joint heirs with Christ. The Bible says that we’re sons of God. Jesus Himself commissioned us to do the work of the Kingdom.
So why, exactly, are we powerless when we should be powerful?
Is it because God’s word is untrue? Is it because there really is no power? (NO!)
I think it’s because even though we’re supposed to be the children of the Most High (with all the attendant privilege and responsibility thereof), we still live like we’re homeless people.
I know that a lot of people will have a hard time relating to what I’m about to say (and so I’ll say it another way, in a moment)… I use “homeless” for a reason. I was homeless once. I lived on the streets of Bangor, Maine for a season. It wasn’t a long time – just a few months – but I was young, and it made an impression on me that I occasionally still find myself face to face with.
Some terrible things happened to me… I went hungry. I was cold. I was sick. I was raped out there. I literally had the clothes on my back and nothing else.
As a result of the experience, once I began living in a normal place again, I had a very hard time. There was a bathroom with a toilet and shower in it. I didn’t need to worry about danger there. I could pee in that toilet any time I liked. I could take an hour long shower if I wanted to. It was mine. But what did I do? For about a year after I had a place to stay, I was in and out of that bathroom in ten seconds flat. Even though it was mine – it really wasn’t mine. Somewhere deep inside, it took me a long time to accept ownership of that thing.
Another way to look at it – most of my readers can likely relate to this. I haven’t had the impression that anyone who reads this blog is filthy rich – we’re mostly lower to middle class working folks. What would happen if we were suddenly transported out of our lifestyle where we have to pinch pennies and we were dropped into a mansion, complete with servants, polished silver and china to eat from, sparkling chandeliers and enough money to do anything we wanted, any time we wanted? I’m betting that most of us would take a long time to get used to it. Sure, we could settle into some things – but how comfortable would we be in that role? I know I sure wouldn’t be comfortable for a long time. For starters, I’m just more comfortable in jeans and a t-shirt drinking coffee out of a chipped ceramic mug than I am in manicured nails drinking tea from porcelain. If my entire outfit, head to toe, counting shoes, costs more than $20 I’m not comfortable. While I’m sure that if I suddenly became wealthy that I might choose to buy new clothes, there ain’t no way I’m buying Prada. Know what I mean? Secondly, I’m sure that for a very long time I would have a fear of what I had suddenly disappearing (the same thing happened after I got a home, after being out on the streets). I was terrified to use what I had, lest I come to depend on it, and it disappear.
Is this the way the church views the Gospel? Has salvation-only become so ingrained in our psyche (like homelessness) that we aren’t ABLE to enjoy our full inheritance? And we’re even so wobbly about salvation itself that it’s easy to go to extremes – to take it for granted or as a license to sin, or to condemn ourselves for past wrongs that God’s forgotten about.
So what if my sickness has nothing to do with God’s sovereignty? What if God really wants to heal me, just like He promised (and God cannot lie)? Maybe we’re not seeing mass healings and resurrections from the dead and deliverances because even though we give intellectual assent to the possibility, we really don’t believe? Maybe it’s because we, as a body of believers and as individuals, have so fixated on what we can “prove” that the only “unprovable” thing we’ll believe is salvation? (Just ask yer average Christian about the supernatural – they’ll either tell you that it’s heresy or that it doesn’t exist)
What do we need to do, to break loose from this unbelief (Lord, I believe – help my unbelief!)… what do we need to do, to truly live out the reality of being sons and heirs of God, joint heirs with Christ, carriers of His manifest presence everywhere we go…. ?
More on that, I guess, in my next post.
