A dream: Forever Settled/On Earth As It Is In Heaven
I’m not going to relate the dream itself, because it’s long and rambling and just points to this one thing which was said at the end of the dream, just before I woke up: God’s Word is forever settled in heaven. (Psalm 119:89)
As I lay in bed, my thoughts turned to, “On earth as it is in heaven.” –
I’ve been pondering the meaning and implications of that passage, which is from the Lord’s prayer, for some time now – since last summer, actually, when I heard Ryan Wyatt preach on the Gospel of the Kingdom and I read Bill Johnson’s book, “When Heaven Invades Earth.”
We pray,
“Our Father, hallowed by Your name. Your Kingdom come, Your will be done,
on earth as it is in Heaven.”
It’s usually recited in ritualistic fashion, or when we’re in trouble.
We don’t grasp the fullness of what Jesus was saying.
In Heaven, everything is perfect. There’s no opposition to God’s word or His command. No flesh and no enemy to woo that flesh into disobedience.
We’re supposed to be praying – and experiencing – that perfection here on the earth.
If God’s Word is forever settled in heaven, then everything He’s ever promised us is a done deal. We’re supposed to be praying for the manifestation of that done deal here on earth – and since God wouldn’t have us praying for something that He wouldn’t allow us to experience, then we should be praying this EXPECTING His promises to be manifest in the here and now.
I know that some will object because this hasn’t been their experience. I have to admit, it hasn’t been mine either, except in fits and spurts. But that IS what the Bible SAYS – when experience doesn’t line up with what God says (Forever His word is settled), we need to back up and re-examine the experience.
13 Responses
“No flesh and no enemy to woo that flesh into disobedience.”
Bad, bad, nasty flesh….
And for some reason I just thought of Yoda…
>>since God wouldn’t have us praying for something that He wouldn’t allow us to experience, then we should be praying this EXPECTING His promises to be manifest in the here and now.<<
In short, name it and claim it.
Jon Anderson says, “We have heaven.” And that has been my experience, even though I don’t fit the Christian criteria.
>>In short, name it and claim it.<>I have to admit, it hasn’t been mine either<>But that IS what the Bible SAYS<<
And isn’t this then a contradiction?
Not sure what just happened…my post entered differently than I wrote it?
I’ll resubmit –
>>In short, name it and claim it.<>I have to admit, it hasn’t been mine either<>But that IS what the Bible SAYS<<
And isn’t this then a contradiction?
Okay, my posts are not showing in full?? Only bits an pieces?! Strange!
I at least want to make my apology known, as my first post came off sounding a little rude. The rest of it…oh well…
Name-it-and-claim-it has a definite connotation of getting anything you want.
God never promised me a mansion on a hill (not this side of heaven, anyway). He never promised me a fancy car, or gold-plated toilets.
One might ask God for such things, and He might even give them (for His own reasons, which I can’t question) – but those are not PROMISES of God.
Things that ARE promises of God *can* and *should* be named, claimed and walked in.
So many Christians today – myself included – operate on a “someday” premise. It’s sort of like this. Your best friend calls you up and says, “I came in to some cash, and I’d like to bless you and your family. I’ve opened a bank account in your name. Here’s the account number.” And you never go to the bank and get the cash. You know it’s there – you just don’t access it. But that’s not the way God says He operates, nor the way He says we should…
Not sure why my comments wouldn’t post in full the other day…hopefully this one will.
Kathi, you name only material things…what abot the many prayers for healing that aren’t answered?
I know we’ve been over this many times, but there really doesn’t seem to be any solid answers.
My personal opinion is this is the reason many WOF’ers will claim ‘lack of faith’ for unanswered prayers…they have no other answer.
I’m curious, what is your take on WOF now?
Hi Kathi –
“God wouldn’t have us praying for something that He wouldn’t allow us to experience, then we should be praying this EXPECTING His promises to be manifest in the here and now.”
I think you are right about expecting the best from God, but I believe that specific reference in the Lord’s Prayer refers to the Age To Come at Jesus’ return, which we will experience. In this world/age we get glimpes “through the glass darkly”.
John 16:33: “In this world you will have trouble. But take heart. I have overcome the world.”
Incidentally, I’ve always thought “The Lord’s Prayer” to be a bit of a misnomer, it’s more “The Lord’s Follower’s Prayer”!
Agreed with nu-kid. My pastor had me once spending some time meditating on the Lord’s prayer line by line, and what I got out of “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” is that we are petitioning for the Lord to return and fulfill what he has promised–that all things in heaven and earth will be under Him (Eph. 1:10). That’s a future thing, ushered in by the Second Coming. That’s not to say it can’t *start* today–we are all called to sanctification and daily conversion, after all–but perfection won’t be reached until He comes.
Of course, that’s just the way I read the Word. 😉
Nu & Missy – I can see what you’re talking about, BUT that interpretation doesn’t take into account two things –
First, the “here and now” of the rest of the prayer (honoring God for who He is, provision, forgiveness, leading, deliverance, the Kingdom and the power and the glory being His – forever) is in the “here and now”.
Second, it doesn’t take into account the weight of supporting Scripture – just off the top of my head:
Jesus went around telling people to repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven was near. He told His disciples to do the same when they went out.
Jesus promised that we would do greater works than even He did.
Jesus said to seek first the Kingdom – meaning it’s accessible in the here-and-now.
Jesus said we’re to ask-seek-knock and that what we ask in His name, He will do (that’s conditional of course).
Jesus said (at the end of Mark 16) that “those who believe” would experience/perform signs/wonders/miracles/etc.
The apostles certainly experienced, “Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.”
Paul said that the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost and went on to say we should be pursuing peace and the things by which we edify one another. (Romans 14)
Paul also said that God has made us alive together with Christ, raised us up together, and seated us in heavenly places in Him (Ephesians 2:5,6)
He also gave praises to God, who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all we ask or think, according to the power that works in us.(Ephesians 3:20)
Jesus has made us kings and priests to God (in the here and now) – (Rev. 1:6 and 1 Peter 2)
That’s just off the top of my head – Ken’s taking me out to din-din for our anniversary in a few minutes or I’d think of more! 🙂
– The apostles certainly experienced, “Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” –
Kathi, I believe John was the only apostle who wasn’t persecuted and killed for his faith. God’s will was done, but it wasn’t a life of sunshine and roses for the apostles!
I think there are two concepts at play here when we use the term “Kingdom Of God”. One being the yet-to-come physical return and reign of Christ, the other addressing the spiritual nature of life in an imperfect, fallen world. They are not mutually exclusive or at odds – one can experience both.
When Jesus said at the Last Supper, “Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.” Mark 14:25 He was obviously speaking of a future time.
When He said “But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” (Matt.6:33), it seems to me He meant
to teach the way to live in the here and now.
To my thinking, we can experience the “spiritual” Kingdom this side of glory but the fulness, the “physical” Kingdom, awaits believers on the flip side of glory at the return of Jesus to set all things right.
(If that all makes sense,lol!)
Nobody’s saying sunshine and roses – the life of a Christ lover is one of extreme sacrifice – perhaps even of one’s life. Jesus told us that we would be persecuted. Persecution does not in any way negate anything I’ve said about the Kingdom in the here-and-now. We can’t ever forget that we are right in the middle of a war zone.
You’re right that there’s a difference between the “here and now” and the “then”… but remember that in the NT we’re referred to as aliens in this place and citizens of heaven already (I think that’s in Hebrews? and maybe 1 or 2 Peter?)
It’s a paradox, in a sense… one of those things like dying in order to live, salvation is free but it costs us everything, bless those that curse you (I’m gonna be preaching a message on this real soon – not sure where or what venue, but it’s coming!).
We don’t have to wait for the physical Kingdom of God to be manifest (even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus) because God Himself is already physically present in each of us. That’s not a spiritual reality, it’s a physical one.
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